Colin on Goff - Stafford

[Cornell29]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Stats wise yes!

He was better in 2021 and the offense ranked better than because of it. The Rams this year are winning a lot of games with the defense. Stafford was truly elite in 2021. This year he's played well but has left a lot of points on the board. The stats look better than the play in my opinion. If he can get more consistent this team will win a Superbowl!

Stafford started 2021 elite but that November was rough. Stafford was 2nd in the league in ints that year despite having a better OL.

Stafford is protecting the ball alot more while still making lots of splash plays.

[HellRam]

Stats wise yes!

He was better in 2021 and the offense ranked better than because of it. The Rams this year are winning a lot of games with the defense. Stafford was truly elite in 2021. This year he's played well but has left a lot of points on the board. The stats look better than the play in my opinion. If he can get more consistent this team will win a Superbowl!

Stafford started 2021 elite but that November was rough. Stafford was 2nd in the league in ints that year despite having a better OL.

Stafford is protecting the ball alot more while still making lots of splash plays.

Agree about ball protection but I still liked the way he played in 2021 more and we scored more points because of it. I think the Jags game is giving us recentcy bias.

[brasilrams]

Its PFF which is and has been used multiple times on the board

And PFF is high as fuck. I've always liked there line ratings. I find the skill position ratings to be off and the LB ratings to be odd as well. I can now add QB.

Regardless, they actually have Goff at 31st ranked QB. Anyone that believes that is retarded. Let's just be honest here.

Passer rating (which is production not opinion)

Goff - 116.4
Stafford - 109.3

PPG
Lions - 30.7 (3rd in NFL)
Rams - 25 (11th in NFL)


I'm all for a honest debate. Nobody has been more fair on the topic than me. But I'm not engaging in nonsense. Regardless, of the source.

IMO , PPG means nothing when comparing QBs. How many more points the rams would have if we didn't have 300 kicks blocked ? if KW didn't fumble at the 1 yard line ? Comparing PPG when comparing Qbs is the opposite of fair . Look what gibbs did yesterday for example .

Anyway , Stafford has been better than Goff this year overall and he has been better in the playoffs ( much better ) . Goff better start playing well in the playoffs with the lions or he will become the new Lamar ( only good for the regular season which doesn't do you any good ) . The goal is to WIN it all.

[HellRam]

And PFF is high as fuck. I've always liked there line ratings. I find the skill position ratings to be off and the LB ratings to be odd as well. I can now add QB.

Regardless, they actually have Goff at 31st ranked QB. Anyone that believes that is retarded. Let's just be honest here.

Passer rating (which is production not opinion)

Goff - 116.4
Stafford - 109.3

PPG
Lions - 30.7 (3rd in NFL)
Rams - 25 (11th in NFL)


I'm all for a honest debate. Nobody has been more fair on the topic than me. But I'm not engaging in nonsense. Regardless, of the source.

IMO , PPG means nothing when comparing QBs. How many more points the rams would have if we didn't have 300 kicks blocked ? if KW didn't fumble at the 1 yard line ? Comparing PPG when comparing Qbs is the opposite of fair . Look what gibbs did yesterday for example .

Anyway , Stafford has been better than Goff this year overall and he has been better in the playoffs ( much better ) . Goff better start playing well in the playoffs with the lions or he will become the new Lamar ( only good for the regular season which doesn't do you any good ) . The goal is to WIN it all.

PPG do matter. What, you think the Rams are the only team to miss kicks? Lol. You dont think Stafford benefits from the Rams D? He had 5 TDs passes all while only having to throw 180 yards because our D constantly gives them good field position. I respect your opinion but guys like you and Cornell have always been extremely biased regarding this topic.

Stafford was winless his first 3 times in the playoffs (0-3) then he got traded to a better team. I agree Goff needs to avoid games like the Washington game. But he also went to the Superbowl his 3rd season. So yes Stafford has been better in the playoffs. Especially now that he is in his prime and a better coach/team. I'll give Goff the same time I gave/given Stafford.

Stafford has not been better this year overall in my opinion. But again, I respect your opinion.

[Cornell29]

[Cornell29]

[brasilrams]

IMO , PPG means nothing when comparing QBs. How many more points the rams would have if we didn't have 300 kicks blocked ? if KW didn't fumble at the 1 yard line ? Comparing PPG when comparing Qbs is the opposite of fair . Look what gibbs did yesterday for example .

Anyway , Stafford has been better than Goff this year overall and he has been better in the playoffs ( much better ) . Goff better start playing well in the playoffs with the lions or he will become the new Lamar ( only good for the regular season which doesn't do you any good ) . The goal is to WIN it all.

PPG do matter. What, you think the Rams are the only team to miss kicks? Lol. You dont think Stafford benefits from the Rams D? He had 5 TDs passes all while only having to throw 180 yards because our D constantly gives them good field position. I respect your opinion but guys like you and Cornell have always been extremely biased regarding this topic.

Stafford was winless his first 3 times in the playoffs (0-3) then he got traded to a better team. I agree Goff needs to avoid games like the Washington game. But he also went to the Superbowl his 3rd season. So yes Stafford has been better in the playoffs. Especially now that he is in his prime and a better coach/team. I'll give Goff the same time I gave/given Stafford.

Stafford has not been better this year overall in my opinion. But again, I respect your opinion.

It’s all good — agree to disagree.
Stafford has a better defense, and Goff has a better supporting cast. He’s got Gibbs and LaPorta, while we’ve got KW (slow and a fumbling machine) and Higbee (LOL). That matters too.

I still think that, so far this season, Stafford has been better. And yes, all teams miss kicks, but not every game — and I don’t see other teams’ running backs fumbling at the one-yard line instead of scoring.

The Rams are leaving 10–20 points on the board per game, ( critical penalties , turnover by KW , missed FG and XP etc ) and most of that isn’t on Stafford — it’s because other guys are screwing up. HE did miss a couple throws that could have been Tds , sure , but the low 25 PPG average is not on him . He is having a phenomenal season .

The Rams, up until the last game, have been really sloppy, while the Lions have not. Against the Jaguars , the rams finally played a clean game and we scored 35 .

I’ll also disagree that Stafford has the better team — maybe ( probably ) a better defense, sure, but the overall supporting cast on offense is definitely better in Detroit. Not to mention the STs ( that has been costing us POINTS AND GAMES ), we rank LAST in the entire league in STs. Stafford does have a better coach though.

Goff is young and have a lot of time to try to catch up but he is slowly becoming the new Lamar Jackson imo . Great in the regular season and in the playoffs......

[HellRam]

PPG do matter. What, you think the Rams are the only team to miss kicks? Lol. You dont think Stafford benefits from the Rams D? He had 5 TDs passes all while only having to throw 180 yards because our D constantly gives them good field position. I respect your opinion but guys like you and Cornell have always been extremely biased regarding this topic.

Stafford was winless his first 3 times in the playoffs (0-3) then he got traded to a better team. I agree Goff needs to avoid games like the Washington game. But he also went to the Superbowl his 3rd season. So yes Stafford has been better in the playoffs. Especially now that he is in his prime and a better coach/team. I'll give Goff the same time I gave/given Stafford.

Stafford has not been better this year overall in my opinion. But again, I respect your opinion.

It’s all good — agree to disagree.
Stafford has a better defense, and Goff has a better supporting cast. He’s got Gibbs and LaPorta, while we’ve got KW (slow and a fumbling machine) and Higbee (LOL). That matters too.

I still think that, so far this season, Stafford has been better. And yes, all teams miss kicks, but not every game — and I don’t see other teams’ running backs fumbling at the one-yard line instead of scoring.

The Rams are leaving 10–20 points on the board per game, ( critical penalties , turnover by KW , missed FG and XP etc ) and most of that isn’t on Stafford — it’s because other guys are screwing up. HE did miss a couple throws that could have been Tds , sure , but the low 25 PPG average is not on him . He is having a phenomenal season .

The Rams, up until the last game, have been really sloppy, while the Lions have not. Against the Jaguars , the rams finally played a clean game and we scored 35 .

I’ll also disagree that Stafford has the better team — maybe ( probably ) a better defense, sure, but the overall supporting cast on offense is definitely better in Detroit. Not to mention the STs ( that has been costing us POINTS AND GAMES ), we rank LAST in the entire league in STs. Stafford does have a better coach though.

Goff is young and have a lot of time to try to catch up but he is slowly becoming the new Lamar Jackson imo . Great in the regular season and in the playoffs......

Both Bates and Karty each have 3 missed field goals. I'm not going to argue tit for tat on field goals. Again, missing kicks is something all teams go through.

As for the talent. We've gone over this already.

And with the Rams adding Adams the Rams are considerably better at WR and the Lions at RB. The Lions issue on offense is not having depth at reciever. They are St.Brown dependant. Jamo just isn't living up to the draft hype, nice deep threat but he's barely on pace for 700 yards. Dont get me wrong, he's solid. But drops too many passes and not a good route runner. Its mute anyways. The fact you have to make excuses for Stafford why he isn't as good or the numbers aren't as good or whatever the case is. Just proves the point I've always made. If Stafford needs everything Goff has, then he's not the better QB. Albiet I've always claimed Stafford was better up until last season. I just can't honestly say he is anymore.

As far as teams....

You can have the Lions.

I'm taking the Rams all day. The combination of McVay, Stafford, recievers, defense and a much improved oline is a better threat to win the Superbowl than the Lions in my opinion. Though, for once they might have a competent defense. That will be interesting to see if they can keep that up.

[HellRam]

Hell, I'll still concede Stafford is better than Goff. But he needs to be more consistent and keep the chains moving. He is playing good football. I just think for this season alone I've seen Goff play better on a game to game basis.

I try to avoid recentcy bias.

[brasilrams]

It’s all good — agree to disagree.
Stafford has a better defense, and Goff has a better supporting cast. He’s got Gibbs and LaPorta, while we’ve got KW (slow and a fumbling machine) and Higbee (LOL). That matters too.

I still think that, so far this season, Stafford has been better. And yes, all teams miss kicks, but not every game — and I don’t see other teams’ running backs fumbling at the one-yard line instead of scoring.

The Rams are leaving 10–20 points on the board per game, ( critical penalties , turnover by KW , missed FG and XP etc ) and most of that isn’t on Stafford — it’s because other guys are screwing up. HE did miss a couple throws that could have been Tds , sure , but the low 25 PPG average is not on him . He is having a phenomenal season .

The Rams, up until the last game, have been really sloppy, while the Lions have not. Against the Jaguars , the rams finally played a clean game and we scored 35 .

I’ll also disagree that Stafford has the better team — maybe ( probably ) a better defense, sure, but the overall supporting cast on offense is definitely better in Detroit. Not to mention the STs ( that has been costing us POINTS AND GAMES ), we rank LAST in the entire league in STs. Stafford does have a better coach though.

Goff is young and have a lot of time to try to catch up but he is slowly becoming the new Lamar Jackson imo . Great in the regular season and in the playoffs......

Both Bates and Karty each have 3 missed field goals. I'm not going to argue tit for tat on field goals. Again, missing kicks is something all teams go through.

As for the talent. We've gone over this already.

And with the Rams adding Adams the Rams are considerably better at WR and the Lions at RB. The Lions issue on offense is not having depth at reciever. They are St.Brown dependant. Jamo just isn't living up to the draft hype, nice deep threat but he's barely on pace for 700 yards. Dont get me wrong, he's solid. But drops too many passes and not a good route runner. Its mute anyways. The fact you have to make excuses for Stafford why he isn't as good or the numbers aren't as good or whatever the case is. Just proves the point I've always made. If Stafford needs everything Goff has, then he's not the better QB. Albiet I've always claimed Stafford was better up until last season. I just can't honestly say he is anymore.

As far as teams....

You can have the Lions.

I'm taking the Rams all day. The combination of McVay, Stafford, recievers, defense and a much improved oline is a better threat to win the Superbowl than the Lions in my opinion. Though, for once they might have a competent defense. That will be interesting to see if they can keep that up.

Well, I’m not making excuses—I call it as I see it. Stafford is the least responsible for the Rams’ low 25 PPG. The least.

Anyway, when comparing both teams, I see the Lions with better RBs and TEs, and the Rams with better WRs. The O-line is debatable (we’ve been over this, and in my opinion, they’re about the same). So overall, the Lions have a better supporting cast on offense—they only really lose at the WR position.

Rams have a better defense, and the Lions have better STs.

Rams have the better coach.

So I guess it kinda evens out ( rams better defense and better coach , lions better supporting cast on offense and better Sts ). With the way Stafford has been playing, I do think he’s been better than Goff. You think otherwise, and it’s all good—like I said, agree to disagree. Or Maybe you do agree with me ( going by your last reply ) .

[AntiGoof]

Goff 5 years in LA : 2 division titles - 1 awful season - 4 playoffs appearances - 1 WC loss, 1 divisional loss, 1 SB LOSS 69 games 42-27-0 18k yrds 107/55

Stafford 4 years in LA : 2 division titles - 1 awful season - 4 playoffs appearances - 1 WC loss, 1 divisional loss, 1SB WIN 64 games 39-25-0, 16,5k yrds 112/46

Stafford's balance sheet is ALREADY better than Goff's, but let's wait until this season is complete so we can really compare and maybe PUT TO REST this pathetic Goff Nostalgia plague on this forum.

Goff is still a whiney baby about his Rams demise, so no wonder his fans will be whiney babies also.

[Cornell29]

Pretty much says Stafford is maximizing his minimum return from OL pass blocking. The Rams RBs aren't maximizing the yards available to get, despite the OL making holes.

For example alot of us seen that Gibbs run. A argument could be made that KW gets just 20 yards on that play, despite the huge hole the Lions OL made, while Gibbs maximized the hole by taking it to the house.

[Cornell29]

[brasilrams]

Pretty much says Stafford is maximizing his minimum return from OL pass blocking. The Rams RBs aren't maximizing the yards available to get, despite the OL making holes.

For example alot of us seen that Gibbs run. A argument could be made that KW gets just 20 yards on that play, despite the huge hole the Lions OL made, while Gibbs maximized the hole by taking it to the house.

Bottom line : Stafford is balling even with a shitty o line and KW's can't do much even behind the best run blocking unit in the league. I say we have top 3-4 qb in the league and a bottom 10 RB. KW wouldn't start for at least 20 teams in this league.

[HellRam]

Most metrics have Goff as seeing a higher pressure rate. If we are throwing that into the debate.

But I've also seen those statistics all over the place with no real consistency.

[HellRam]

Let's have fun with this.

So according to ESPN win rates-

Rams have the 6th best run rate line and 6th best pass blocking win rate.

The Lions have the 23rd best run blocking win rate and 18th best pass blocking win rate.

Pro Football Reference-

Goff has seen the (6th)most pressure with a rate of 24.5%

Stafford has seen the (21st)most pressure with a rate 18.4%

PFF Individual Ratings (pass blocking alone)

Rams
A. Jackson 27 out 77
S. Avila 10 out 82
C. Shelton 32 out 35
K. Dotson 41 out 82
R. Hav 67 out 77

Mclendon has been better at 51 out 77

Lions-
T. Decker 30 out 77
C. Mahogany 49 out 82
G. Glasgow 5 out 35
T. Ratledge 70 out 82
P. Sewell 16 out 77

There's 3 different sources. And the consensus is the Rams actually have a better pass protection than the Lions. So if the Rams oline is "shit". What does that make Detroits?

Figured real data would be nice over baseless Twitter post

[DelMar]

[Commish]

You and me both lost a lot of respect for him..that was a petty move by McVay and he let his ego get in the way of what was best for the team..when the team Doctors said Goff was able to play..McVay was determined to show Goff that it was his team and his way or the highway..and the rest is history as they say.

Well, Jared Goff did have a broken thumb when John Wolford started for the Rams in that 2020 'win-to-get-in' regular-season finale vs. the Cardinals.

As a recall, our team's "D" gave up only seven points (set up by a Wolford interception) while scoring nine itself (pick six and safety), so the Good Guys could likely have won that game with my sister-in-law starting at QB for them, or at least George Plimpton.

As for Sean McVay starting Wolford (who was sidelined rather quickly by a chest injury) in the NFC 'wild card' game against the Seahawks, I was uncertain about that, however I did recall Chuck Knox's foolish decision to start an injured James Harris at QB in the 1975 NFC championship contest.

The critical injury during that Rams' postseason upset of the Seahawks was the one to Aaron Donald, as it turned out...

RAM SEASON!!

--The Commish

[RonMac]

Guess there not many of us left who remember that 1975 playoff game - Harris had no business in that game. Always my opinion the Rams had the best team in the NFL for several years in the 1970s but were out coached or in done by poor Special Teams. They had good players backing up good players @ nearly every position.

[SheepNoMore]

Bottom line - ask 1000 NFL scouts and management personnel who they'd rather have at QB going into the playoffs -- if both were on the Rams or both on the Lions -- and 99% would say Stafford. Not close.

[ocram23]

Bottom line - ask 1000 NFL scouts and management personnel who they'd rather have at QB going into the playoffs -- if both were on the Rams or both on the Lions -- and 99% would say Stafford. Not close.

Goff is an MVP candidate this yr so if we are talking about present day there is no way 99% would take Staff

[HellRam]

Bottom line - ask 1000 NFL scouts and management personnel who they'd rather have at QB going into the playoffs -- if both were on the Rams or both on the Lions -- and 99% would say Stafford. Not close.

Goff is an MVP candidate this yr so if we are talking about present day there is no way 99% would take Staff

I think the post meant who would you rather have in the "playoffs"?

Which Stafford might and probably is the right answer. However, a lot of that has to do with the Rams just being the better ran team. Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs.

[ocram23]

Goff is an MVP candidate this yr so if we are talking about present day there is no way 99% would take Staff

I think the post meant who would you rather have in the "playoffs"?

Which Stafford might and probably is the right answer. However, a lot of that has to do with the Rams just being the better ran team. Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs.

ok no worries.....

[HellRam]

I think the post meant who would you rather have in the "playoffs"?

Which Stafford might and probably is the right answer. However, a lot of that has to do with the Rams just being the better ran team. Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs.

ok no worries.....

I'll add this....

Both Goff and Stafford are 5-5 in the playoffs. So this perception that it isn't "close" between the two doesn't really add up to whats occurred.

Stafford in 6 appearances has advanced only 2 times.

Goff in 5 appearances has advanced 3 times.

Stafford has been to one Conference Championship games.

Goff has been to two Conference Championship games.

Where Stafford has Goff beat is obviously the Superbowl win!!! Where Goff lost his.

[brasilrams]

Goff is an MVP candidate this yr so if we are talking about present day there is no way 99% would take Staff

I think the post meant who would you rather have in the "playoffs"?

Which Stafford might and probably is the right answer. However, a lot of that has to do with the Rams just being the better ran team. Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs.

" Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs. "

True that. But back in those days, Detroit didn’t have a decent coaching staff — and definitely no Brad Holmes. Bottom line: Detroit’s roster was trash for most of the time Stafford was there. When Goff came in, that’s when they finally started running the franchise the right way. It’s totally normal for the Lions to drop 40+ points while Goff only throws for 150 yards, because Montgomery and Gibbs are just tearing up defenses. Stafford never had anything like that going for him back then.

[HellRam]

I think the post meant who would you rather have in the "playoffs"?

Which Stafford might and probably is the right answer. However, a lot of that has to do with the Rams just being the better ran team. Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs.

" Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs. "

True that. But back in those days, Detroit didn’t have a decent coaching staff — and definitely no Brad Holmes. Bottom line: Detroit’s roster was trash for most of the time Stafford was there. When Goff came in, that’s when they finally started running the franchise the right way. It’s totally normal for the Lions to drop 40+ points while Goff only throws for 150 yards, because Montgomery and Gibbs are just tearing up defenses. Stafford never had anything like that going for him back then.

I feel like your just throwing stuff out there without doing your homework.

The Lions were actually a solid team during the Caldwell era who was a solid coach who has a career winning record with both the Colts and Lions. For example in 2014 the Lions had the 3rd best scoring defense and Megatron and Golden Tate were the recievers. That's a pretty good team. Unfortunately, in the wildcard round that year Stafford had 3 turnovers and they lost to the Cowboys.

The Lions royally screwed up when they moved on from Caldwell and then became a dumpster fire leading to Stafford wanting to be traded.


As for the Lions scoring 40 points because of their RBs. How do you explain them having a top 5 offense before Gibbs and Montgomery were even on the team? Nobody thought much of Montgomery until he was paired with Goff. And the stats prove it. Since 2022 only one QB has thrown for more yards than Goff and that his Mahomes. RBs are nice but they don't truly generate offense or points otherwise the Colts or Giants with Barkley and Taylor wouldn't have been trash teams. It's a QB driven leage and the RB plays a complimentary role. That's why the Lions were still a top 5 offense with Jamal Williams and Swift.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-p ... since-2022

Goff also leads the NFL with most TDs thrown since 2022 as well.

[Cornell29]

[HellRam]

Interesting..


So Tampa is 21st in passing yards allowed per game but has the best secondary?

Seattle is number 1 in recievers yet only one (JSN) is
actually producing and balling out?




Gotta love PFF. Where production doesn't matter anymore. I use to like these guys but I see why more and more people are calling them out. The grading system is completely broken.

[ocram23]

Interesting..


So Tampa is 21st in passing yards allowed per game but has the best secondary?

Seattle is number 1 in recievers yet only one (JSN) is
actually producing and balling out?




Gotta love PFF. Where production doesn't matter anymore. I use to like these guys but I see why more and more people are calling them out. The grading system is completely broken.

not a fan of PFF either

[brasilrams]

" Stafford was 0-3 in Detroit in the playoffs. "

True that. But back in those days, Detroit didn’t have a decent coaching staff — and definitely no Brad Holmes. Bottom line: Detroit’s roster was trash for most of the time Stafford was there. When Goff came in, that’s when they finally started running the franchise the right way. It’s totally normal for the Lions to drop 40+ points while Goff only throws for 150 yards, because Montgomery and Gibbs are just tearing up defenses. Stafford never had anything like that going for him back then.

I feel like your just throwing stuff out there without doing your homework.

The Lions were actually a solid team during the Caldwell era who was a solid coach who has a career winning record with both the Colts and Lions. For example in 2014 the Lions had the 3rd best scoring defense and Megatron and Golden Tate were the recievers. That's a pretty good team. Unfortunately, in the wildcard round that year Stafford had 3 turnovers and they lost to the Cowboys.

The Lions royally screwed up when they moved on from Caldwell and then became a dumpster fire leading to Stafford wanting to be traded.


As for the Lions scoring 40 points because of their RBs. How do you explain them having a top 5 offense before Gibbs and Montgomery were even on the team? Nobody thought much of Montgomery until he was paired with Goff. And the stats prove it. Since 2022 only one QB has thrown for more yards than Goff and that his Mahomes. RBs are nice but they don't truly generate offense or points otherwise the Colts or Giants with Barkley and Taylor wouldn't have been trash teams. It's a QB driven leage and the RB plays a complimentary role. That's why the Lions were still a top 5 offense with Jamal Williams and Swift.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-p ... since-2022

Goff also leads the NFL with most TDs thrown since 2022 as well.

How many seasons during Stafford’s era did the Lions actually have a decent coaching staff, a decent defense, and a decent run game? Two or three seasons out of the eleven he played there ? … come on, man.

NOt even sure why I am debating goff / stafford . This thread should have died when rampage posted this STAT :

10 playoff games for both Qbs and ...here it is:

Goff 245.1 Yd/gm 9 TD 5 INT 85.1 Rating
Stafford 299.6 Yd/gm 19 TD 6 INT 102.3 Rating AND A RING!!

Are we still talking about Goff and Stafford? Really? Until Goff elevates his play in the playoffs and the Super Bowl — because that’s what actually matters — there’s no real discussion between them. They both play well in the regular season but when the intensity increases in the playoffs, one guy INCREASES his production , the other DECREASES .

[HellRam]

I feel like your just throwing stuff out there without doing your homework.

The Lions were actually a solid team during the Caldwell era who was a solid coach who has a career winning record with both the Colts and Lions. For example in 2014 the Lions had the 3rd best scoring defense and Megatron and Golden Tate were the recievers. That's a pretty good team. Unfortunately, in the wildcard round that year Stafford had 3 turnovers and they lost to the Cowboys.

The Lions royally screwed up when they moved on from Caldwell and then became a dumpster fire leading to Stafford wanting to be traded.


As for the Lions scoring 40 points because of their RBs. How do you explain them having a top 5 offense before Gibbs and Montgomery were even on the team? Nobody thought much of Montgomery until he was paired with Goff. And the stats prove it. Since 2022 only one QB has thrown for more yards than Goff and that his Mahomes. RBs are nice but they don't truly generate offense or points otherwise the Colts or Giants with Barkley and Taylor wouldn't have been trash teams. It's a QB driven leage and the RB plays a complimentary role. That's why the Lions were still a top 5 offense with Jamal Williams and Swift.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-p ... since-2022

Goff also leads the NFL with most TDs thrown since 2022 as well.

How many seasons during Stafford’s era did the Lions actually have a decent coaching staff, a decent defense, and a decent run game? Two or three seasons out of the eleven he played there ? … come on, man.

No one's arguing that. I literally said the dumpster that Detroit was is why he wanted to leave.

But I see you ignored everything else I posted.