Should we have kept Goff?

[harkin]

Just hear me out.

No.

[toast49]

Just hear me out before you all lose your minds.

Ok, been away for a while living life and doing life things. Got to thinking about just this subject.

What if we kept Goff?

Now, I wanted Goff gone. I was fed up with him. I know we needed to make a change, and almost everyone else in here thought this as well. Stafford is an absolute upgrade, thats not what I am trying to hit on here. But, lets look at something here...

If we had kept Goff, we would most likely be in the range of 9-8 or 10-7. With Stafford its looks like we could end up at 10-7 or 11-6 at best imo.

I wont repeat everything we gave up to secure Staff, for we all know it... but was getting the same record or a one more win w Staff, worth it?

I mean who really cares about win/loss, as long as we get into the playoffs and win. Thats the point of all this, so the jury is still out for me until we are in the playoffs. We will see how Staff and McVay do when we get there, for this is what counts.

But the point of this question is, if we do end up w the same records and lose in the first or second round of the playoffs as we did in 2020. Was it all worth it to secure Stafford? If we had kept Goff and got rid of him this offseason, we would be in a pretty good cap space AND have multiple draft picks for 2022 and beyond.

Again, this IS NOT a bash Goff thread, its simply a business question. Time will tell if we made the right choice of course. But if we lose 3 or 4 more games, barely squeak into the playoffs and go to Green Bay and lose again... Im sorry, but to me... It wasnt worth it. Im a Stafford fan, I was such a homer there for a while. I was all in. Still am to a point, but we need to beat good teams. Just beating Tampa this far into the season isn't strong evidence that we are a GREAT team.

Anyways... who knows right. Just spit balling here...

I was trying to tell you to temper your expectations. We've seen this act before with the Rams trying to bring in these talented but flawed aging QB's.

[NorCal RF]

This thread has caused me to lose my mind……….

Or more like someone else has lost their mind……………

[Rammer]

It's not as simple as should we have kept Goff or not. Stafford is better but at what cost? Maybe this move alone was okay in a vacuum but I think when you look at all of moves in totality over the last few years - We were a better team or at least just as good, before we started this win now approach. Plus we could have added some youthful talent by now.

Regarding Goff -- we already did make it to a super bowl with him. So, it was doable. If they had focused more on protecting him and the running game, they could have won with him. He was very good with the play action. Plus, there were always draft picks to use if we had to.

[D-GenerationX]

That 3 game losing streak, I felt like I was watching Goff.

Stafford got fat and happy against the dregs of the league. Much like Goff did for years.

End of the day, it was poisoned between McVay and Goff and could not continue. But face it, we are the same team.

And some of you (you know who you are, and we all do too) that swore up and down in the offseason that we traded for some elite talent needed your head examined. Needed it then, still need it now.

Goff has his share of documented problems. So does Stafford. Goff drove some of you so around the bend you became consumed with the former at the expense of a total blind spot to the latter.

[D-GenerationX]

If the Rams dont win it all in 21 or 22 you can make the argument that we lost on the trade.

HOW-EVAH...in my humble opinion we have a significantly better chance of winning it all with Stafford while Goff of recent vintage gave us a slimmer chance, in my humble opinion of course.

Would still make the trade today. Still feel there's a chance to win it all this year and I feel theres an even GREATER chance to win it next year.

If they so much as make a SB in the next 3 years, win or lose, it was worth it.

3 more straight second round losses (or worse)...this was a disaster.

[harkin]

Umm you really Darnold, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Trevor Simmein and all whole bunch more are better then Aron Rodgers????

Sorry but so many of these stat charts are complete garbage. I've read stats that rank Stafford 30th against pressure and they had him ranked worse then Goff. Its whatever.

One of the problems with stat sheets is people can read so much into them that isn’t really there.

It’s long been known that a QB who can’t handle pressure is going to have trouble in the playoffs.

It’s also long been known that the way to beat Rodgers is to keep the pressure on.

If you think this shows that Rodgers is a bad QB then lol.

It’s also been known for a while that Goff folds under pressure.

Back to the purpose of posting this graph:

Stafford is much better than Goff.

[Rammer]

It's not as simple as should we have kept Goff or not. Stafford is better but at what cost? Maybe this move alone was okay in a vacuum but I think when you look at all of moves in totality over the last few years - We were a better team or at least just as good, before we started this win now approach. Plus we could have added some youthful talent by now.

Regarding Goff -- we already did make it to a super bowl with him. So, it was doable. If they had focused more on protecting him and the running game, they could have won with him. He was very good with the play action. Plus, there were always draft picks to use if we had to.

Slight correction, we made it to a Super Bowl with Goff during a ROOKIE CONTRACT. Not trying to be disrespectful to Jared but big difference when you have 30 million extra to spend on Talent.

No doubt that was a mistake for them but they are the ones that decided to do that. They could have maybe held off or just let him play out his contract or maybe franchised him until they were sure.

[therealheadslap75]

That 3 game losing streak, I felt like I was watching Goff.

Stafford got fat and happy against the dregs of the league. Much like Goff did for years.

End of the day, it was poisoned between McVay and Goff and could not continue. But face it, we are the same team.

And some of you (you know who you are, and we all do too) that swore up and down in the offseason that we traded for some elite talent needed your head examined. Needed it then, still need it now.

Goff has his share of documented problems. So does Stafford. Goff drove some of you so around the bend you became consumed with the former at the expense of a total blind spot to the latter.

From a psychological standpoint. This is spot on!

I'll take accountability that I thought Stafford was an elite thrower and in McVays offense he would be a monster, I didn't count on three things

1. Stafford not being ok(i believe theres something wrong with him)
2. The defense being significantly worse
3. McVay changing his offense to suit Stafford as opposed to Stafford fitting into McVays offense

but its not over yet is it, a win tonight would make a big difference in the collective psyche of Rams Nation

[D-GenerationX]

Well c'mon, there's no doubt to anybody that Stafford is better than Goff, the only question is did we give up too much to get Stafford. To my eyes Stafford is a clear as day upgrade and also to the NFL Community as well, with again no disrespect to Jared.

Oh yeah...better. I think that's clear.

A special player? Not on your life. Has never been true even 1 year of the past 15 I've watching him playing football.

He's a guy that puts up nice numbers against the weak sisters and implodes when it matters most and you need him to be THE guy. I said that during the offseason and I think it checks out.

Only thing I can't figure is the TB game. That's the type of game he's lost his whole life. Not sure what got into him that day.

Perhaps he can discover more of that down the stretch. We have to hope so.

[D-GenerationX]

3. McVay changing his offense to suit Stafford as opposed to Stafford fitting into McVays offense

This is the real bummer this year.

Here is how that should have been handled :

Stafford : "I gotta tell ya, I'm really not that big on a bunch of pre-snap motion and misdirection. Or play action, for that matter."

McVay : "Whether you like it, or you don't like it...LEARN TO LOVE IT! Learn to live with it! Because that's the offense here, dude."

McVay needed to channel his inner Ric Flair. He instead succumbed to Stafford's wishes.

So who is really in charge here?

[Rammer]

Umm you really Darnold, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Trevor Simmein and all whole bunch more are better then Aron Rodgers????

Sorry but so many of these stat charts are complete garbage. I've read stats that rank Stafford 30th against pressure and they had him ranked worse then Goff. Its whatever.

One of the problems with stat sheets is people can read so much into them that isn’t really there.

It’s long been known that a QB who can’t handle pressure is going to have trouble in the playoffs.

It’s also long been known that the way to beat Rodgers is to keep the pressure on.

It’s also been known for a while that Goff folds under pressure.

Back to the purpose of posting this graph:

Stafford is much better than Goff.

Yea, he is better than Goff. He gives us a much better big play making ability. But he is also much older; less durable; has accuracy issues; and cost us 2 no 1's; we have shorter window now; and he seems every bit as bad under pressure as Goff was. So, it's not a slam dunk. By the end of next year we will know for sure whether it was worth it.

[Bulldawg]

It is too early to ask that question. Ask it the end of next year. You are trying to answer a question with only partial information. Regular season record doesn't matter if we win during the playoffs...just like it wouldn't matter if we were 14-3 and lose in the first round of playoffs.

I personally think your estimate on Goff is incorrect...I think we would be lucky to have 6 wins if Goff was QB. Our defense hasn't stopped many offenses and you think he could score more than 17pts a game?

Be patient, lets see what happens. I think the team would still win a tie-break for actually trying to make change...even if it is not successful. You are throwing in the towel way too early.

[Bulldawg]

It is too early to ask that question. Ask it the end of next year. You are trying to answer a question with only partial information. Regular season record doesn't matter if we win during the playoffs...just like it wouldn't matter if we were 14-3 and lose in the first round of playoffs.

I personally think your estimate on Goff is incorrect...I think we would be lucky to have 6 wins if Goff was QB. Our defense hasn't stopped many offenses and you think he could score more than 17pts a game?

Be patient, lets see what happens. I think the team would still win a tie-break for actually trying to make change...even if it is not successful. You are throwing in the towel way too early.

Not throwing in the towel in the slightest. Just throwing this question out there. And I agree, let’s see how this plays out after playoffs. Just something to discuss, BD…

Yep, I understand. There is definitely concern, BUT hard to discuss hypothetical. We don't know how Goff would be on this team this year. Losing Akers/Woods has really hurt us but we have to adapt. No excuses. This team has enough stars to make a run. I think we would be sitting in a different place right now with us looking forward the the draft without a chance for the playoffs. Remember, Tampa won all their playoff games on the road last year. No reason we can't do the same if it comes to that this year. I have much more confidence that we could do that with Stafford vs Goff.

Was it worth it? Ask the guy that is about to roll the dice on a craps table. His answer might be different after the roll. Our roll is not over yet.

Couldn't you ask the same questions about Ramsey or V Miller too? If we don't win SB was the Ramsey trade worth it? (I think so, just trying to make a point.)

[Yorkshire Ram]

No, because Goff isn't a good QB. They had no other way to improve the position unless Safety Blitz was right about Wolford.

Also stop pretending the Rams haven't been making these "all in" moves for years now well before Stafford. They have, the result is a paper thin top heavy roster that has to have injury luck. Drafting Goff in the first place was a stupid move that cost high draft capital. Foolish. Hell, the Stafford picks haven't even come into play yet.

The 2018 Rams had a much better team roster with more depth because they didn't have a ridiculous 31 million in dead cap money.

I agree with most of this.

If Stafford performs well tonight and gets a second win against top quality opposition, the narrative will change again to him being over his slump and on pace for a career year.

[Cornell29]

Imo, getting Stafford was the right move. It's not even a top 5 move I question right now.

The other moves or lack there of are the issues, imo.

Should the rams have drafted Creed over Tutu. Yes it takes 3 years to evaluate a pick and I still believe that but at the very least this year Creed would have been the better pick hands down. Tutu is on IR and giving nothing to the team right now.

Should the rams have tried to resign JJ or at least found a better replacement? Yes JJ might have been too expensive, but there were better options.

Should the rams have found a better option over TJ Reeder, Yes. Opposing qbs target TJ in coverage, even Goff took advantage of him.

Should the rams have tried to find a KR/PR like Corey Patterson, Yes?

Should the rams have found a better option at DC ? MAYBE YES.

If the moves I listed above were properly addressed, along with getting Stafford, then the rams would have had at least 2 less losses and be tied with the cards going into this game tonight.

[Cornell29]

Imo No, getting Stafford was the right move.

The other moves or lack there of are the issues.

Should the rams have drafted Creed over Tutu. Yes

Should the rams have tried to resign JJ or at least found a better replacement? Yes

Should the rams have found a better option over TJ Reeder, Yes

Should the rams have tried to find a KR/PR like Corey Patterson, Yes?

Should the rams have found a better option at DC ? MAYBE YES.

If the moves I listed above were properly addressed, along with getting Stafford, then the rams would have had at least 2 less losses and be tied with the cards going into this game tonight.

I get and agree with much of this. That said, every year there are moves that teams regret.

Stafford was brought in to make up for other deficiencies. If Stafford needs a perfect or near perfect roster then how much different is he really then Goff? Since that was the knock on Goff. It seems we're doing the same with Staff.

I'm not asking for a perfect roster. I didn't mention any injuries or players being out, bc that's out of the coaches control.

But if there were moves I regret, I listed my top 5. One player can't overcome many roster issues, that's why hall of famers like Rodgers, Wilson, Warner and even Brees only have one SB win, throughout their long great career. Despite how great they've been throughout their career they only each won one SB.

[armyram]

IMO, too early to tell. So far our record is more of a indicator of McVay than Stafford or Goff. These mid season slumps and late season adjustments are a norm it seems. One thing that Goff has over Stafford is playoff experience. Saying that….Matthew Stafford has a passer rating of 87.8 with 908 yards, 4 touchdowns and 3 interceptions in 3 games in the playoffs in his career…. Compared to Jared Goff has a passer rating of 79.9 with 1,300 yards, 4 touchdowns and 2 interceptions in 6 games in the playoffs in his career. Edge goes to Stafford in productivity. But I believe Stafford has more pressure on him than he has ever had in his career. So it will definitely be seen by season end how he handles things. Let’s give it to season end.

[Simdaddy]

No we should not have kept Goff..
John Johnson - yes
Troy Hill - yes

[Rammer]

Maybe this move alone was okay in a vacuum but I think when you look at all of moves in totality over the last few years - We were a better team or at least just as good, before we started this win now approach.

Regarding Goff -- we already did make it to a super bowl with him.

So what is the win now moves timeline? When we traded all those picks to draft Goff, sign Whitworth and Woods, extend Donald, extend Goff, extend Gurley, trade for Watkins and/or Cooks? Deal two firsts for Ramsey? All those moves chewed up salary cap space and or draft picks.

Yes, Rams did have a better roster before, but that wasn't because of the Stafford trade in which the draft capital paid is still in the future.

Timeline would be next year, I would think. If it doesn't happen by then, I don't think it will. I'm not blaming just the Stafford move for the roster issues that we have. Like you said, the effect of his deal hasn't even kicked in yet. It's the cumulative affect of all of the moves. Including re signing Goff to his mega deal, Gurley, etc.

[NN1Badboy]

Goff is a loser. The jury is still out on Stafford. But he does at least give us hope. But after losing three in a row and possibly not even making the playoffs I see where you’re going with this.

Looking at the big picture, it really is an interesting question.

[luckenbill56]

I do not care if Dudley Do-Right. Is the QB. The name of the game is win. Until Stafford gets the club to the big game. He will not be as good as Goff. Physical skill is one thing. Results are something else. However, in 2017-18 the team was better. Heck in 2017 even the kick returner made all pro. Although Cooper stunk in the playoff game. The team was simply better. Not fair to expect Stafford with a lesser team to win a Super Bowl, but the facts are final results are what he is going to be graded on. Personally when you are the number two passer in the NFL your QB is doing something right. I still feel much of the team's problems stem from a coach who has not recovered from a loss in the Super Bowl. Goff had Gurley. A better offensive line. What if Stafford had those assets. He does not. Thus, I feel he has done well with what he has to work with. I liked Goff. He had issues, but I also remember the Fisher years. Goff is gone and so are a boat load of high draft picks. The future is bleak. If the Rams win the Super Bowl? It was a good trade. If they don't it was not.

[harkin]

Well according to your graph it says Goff is average vs pressure. Since he's in DET with a injured oline he's seen a lot this year and is still ranked average by your graphic.

So maybe you should find a graph that fits your narrative better!

You’re so close!

[whatever]

I like Stafford. At times I liked Goff. I still think we gave up too much in the trade. The NFL is a resource management game. I don't like wasting resources. Win or lose i'm at peace with this move. I was really annoyed with the Robinson Draft pick and I was apoplectic with the Austin extension. Goff/Stafford isn't anything like that.

If McVay was adamant about Goff leaving then I guess it had to happen. Not sure what the other options were. Without a better all-round RB than Akers in support I don't think it was going to matter.

[Truth]

If you think 2 future 1st round picks are better than any marginal improvement Stafford gives you, then yea.

If the Rams miss the playoffs this year, then absolutely. We’d have given up 2 firsts for nothing

[malibu]

My two cents hard to determine yet, but to me this signing and trading falls on McVays shoulders.

McVay stupidly resigned Goff to a big contract when there was no need as soon as he did. He hampered the team by this super poor decision. The decision before the contract was I'd Goff our QB for the next 4 years not to wake up a year or so later and say oh I screwed up. Well that screw up cost us minimumly JJ3, Hill. I not even throwing in Brockers or Fox to the mix. Plus if they jettisoned him before he cost them a bunch of dead money maybe they got Stafford without any financial cost except the draft picks.

Goff wasn't even his guy, so why resign him if not sure? I get Cooks and Gurley.

[Cornell29]

I'll keep Stafford

[Truth]

Yep… this post didn’t age well. What an idiot op. Someone tell the op he’s a douche

I mean what a dumb thread w bad timing. I’m done w this OP. Always saying stupid things.

It’s not stupid. It’s a valid question but I’d phrase it like:

Would you rather keep Goff and the future picks, AND miss the playoffs this year….or have Stafford and lose in the 1st round?

Obviously if Stafford wins games in the playoffs the trade is worth it. If he doesn’t, was it worth it just to make it assuming Goff may have barely missed?

[Bulldawg]

Yep… this post didn’t age well. What an idiot op. Someone tell the op he’s a douche

I mean what a dumb thread w bad timing. I’m done w this OP. Always saying stupid things.

Nah, it was a fair point…or at least you letting out frustration. Maybe Stafford read your post and had to prove you wrong. No way Golf made those throws tonight.

Still have to wait until end of 2022 to really answer your post. We just have to look at the cumulative trades and not just Stafford. How big was it picking up Sony and OB this year?

[29TheBest]

Just hear me out.

No.

LMAO

At Stafford's worst moment, I still had more confidence in him than Goff. Those blunders in those 3 games were uncharacteristic