Jake is back

[Cornell29]

[brasilrams]

Changing the long snapper won't help much . Chase and KArty both need to go.

[Henry VIII]

Changing the long snapper won't help much . Chase and KArty both need to go.

I do think it will help..the Long Snapper is a very vital part of the whole sequence..theses guys are so important. The really good ones are able to to the snap the football right into the holders hands with the laces facing out so all he has to do is catch it and hold it..instead of searching for the laces costing valuable time and throwing the timing off..Jake has been around for a long time and has this down pat

[brasilrams]

Changing the long snapper won't help much . Chase and KArty both need to go.

I do think it will help..the Long Snapper is a very vital part of the whole sequence..theses guys are so important. The really good ones are able to to the snap the football right into the holders hands with the laces facing out so all he has to do is catch it and hold it..instead of searching for the laces costing valuable time and throwing the timing off..Jake has been around for a long time and has this down pat

Maybe , but from what I saw , most kicks that he misses it is because he is doing something wrong ( like taking too much time to start running or trying to adjust to the rush ) or they are blocked ( because the line couldn't block ) .

[Henry VIII]

Timing is important for the Kicker and that could be related to Karty taking too long to get his kicks off.

[Cornell29]

[Henry VIII]

Cornell29 thanks for posting this..this exactly what I'm talking about..this is just one of the issues we are having on our ST. Is Karty blameless no..but he's only 1 part of the sequence of a successful kicker.
A lot of people put the blame solely on a kicker when he misses..but its a whole lot of factors that go into making a PAT or a field goal..its not always the kickers fault when things go bad. We need help all over this aspect of our game.

[UtahRam]

When the kick gets blocked it's pretty much the failure of the O-line. The shanks are on the kicker, possibly the holder and rarely the snapper.

[Henry VIII]

When the kick gets blocked it's pretty much the failure of the O-line. The shanks are on the kicker, possibly the holder and rarely the snapper.

Well if the LS continues to deliver the laces in the wrong position its entirely his fault..as I have mentioned earlier and Cornell29 has posted showing a miss where the laces were not showing out. The LS is a very vital position and a huge factor in being a successful kicker or not period.

[Jacksnow]

Cornell29 thanks for posting this..this exactly what I'm talking about..this is just one of the issues we are having on our ST. Is Karty blameless no..but he's only 1 part of the sequence of a successful kicker.
A lot of people put the blame solely on a kicker when he misses..but its a whole lot of factors that go into making a PAT or a field goal..its not always the kickers fault when things go bad. We need help all over this aspect of our game.

Wow really getting into Xs and Os. I never realized a long snapper could snap the ball so holder did not have to adjust ball so kicker wasn't kicking the laces. Just out if curiosity when does this skill developed? High school, College?

[Henry VIII]

Cornell29 thanks for posting this..this exactly what I'm talking about..this is just one of the issues we are having on our ST. Is Karty blameless no..but he's only 1 part of the sequence of a successful kicker.
A lot of people put the blame solely on a kicker when he misses..but its a whole lot of factors that go into making a PAT or a field goal..its not always the kickers fault when things go bad. We need help all over this aspect of our game.

Wow really getting into Xs and Os. I never realized a long snapper could snap the ball so holder did not have to adjust ball so kicker wasn't kicking the laces. Just out if curiosity when does this skill developed? High school, College?

Oh for sure it is an art and a science all in one.. when it comes to being a good Long Snapper. Some High schools teach it. but absolutely its taught in College. They even know exactly how many revolutions the ball will spin before it hits a holders hands! Because if it doesn't spin the correct amount of revolutions then the holder is searching for those laces costing time!..and it also throws off the timing of the kicker..They have it down to a damn science. Click on the YouTube link and you'll be amazed and have a huge respect for the LS now.

[Jacksnow]

Wow really getting into Xs and Os. I never realized a long snapper could snap the ball so holder did not have to adjust ball so kicker wasn't kicking the laces. Just out if curiosity when does this skill developed? High school, College?

Oh for sure it is an art and a science all in one.. when it comes to being a good Long Snapper. Some High schools teach it. but absolutely its taught in College. They even know exactly how many revolutions the ball will spin before it hits a holders hands! Because if it doesn't spin the correct amount of revolutions then the holder is searching for those laces costing time!..and it also throws of the timing of the kicker..They have it down to a damn science. Click on the YouTube link and you'll be amazed and have a huge respect for the LS now.

Henry8th. Thanks so much good info!

[Cornell29]

Why is Chase still on the Rams?

[UtahRam]

When the kick gets blocked it's pretty much the failure of the O-line. The shanks are on the kicker, possibly the holder and rarely the snapper.

Well if the LS continues to deliver the laces in the wrong position its entirely his fault..as I have mentioned earlier and Cornell29 has posted showing a miss where the laces were not showing out. The LS is a very vital position and a huge factor in being a successful kicker or not period.

Yeah, I just don't think the laces have anything do with the 4 kicks Karty has had blocked this year. I guess you could argue that Karty would have missed those kicks anyway depending on the laces but that we'll never know.

[Henry VIII]

Why is Chase still on the Rams?

I think it would be a much better and easier process to find a qualified Coach..than it is to find and develop a kicker..maybe then we could have a Special Teams unit that would weapon instead of a liability. I wish I knew what happened to the relationship between McVay and Bones..Bones was a good coach and well liked..his teams seemed to have their shit together while he was here..it seemed strange that the Rams didn't offer him a new contract. I would love to see the Rams poach Toub away from KC or get Chris Tabor away from Buffalo. Instead we are stuck with some second fiddle friend out here it just doesn't make sense.

[Henry VIII]

Well if the LS continues to deliver the laces in the wrong position its entirely his fault..as I have mentioned earlier and Cornell29 has posted showing a miss where the laces were not showing out. The LS is a very vital position and a huge factor in being a successful kicker or not period.

Yeah, I just don't think the laces have anything do with the 4 kicks Karty has had blocked this year. I guess you could argue that Karty would have missed those kicks anyway depending on the laces but that we'll never know.

Probably not on the blocks..but you said the shanks were on Karty and possibly the Holder and rarely on the Long Snapper..when I said the its not on the Holder to put the laces out..its 99.0 on the Long Snapper to do that..I do think there's some correlation between the Long Snapper not delivering the ball to the holder correctly and some of his missed kicks or shanks as you call them.

[brasilrams]

When the kick gets blocked it's pretty much the failure of the O-line. The shanks are on the kicker, possibly the holder and rarely the snapper.

I agree with this take. I’ve seen the holder adjust the ball plenty of times for the kicker. The long snapper is actually the least important part of the operation, since his mistake can usually be corrected by the holder.

[Henry VIII]

When the kick gets blocked it's pretty much the failure of the O-line. The shanks are on the kicker, possibly the holder and rarely the snapper.

I agree with this take. I’ve seen the holder adjust the ball plenty of times for the kicker. The long snapper is actually the least important part of the operation, since his mistake can usually be corrected by the holder.

If you believe that the Long Snapper is the least important aspect in regards to having a good chance of making a Field Goal or a PAT then you know very little on what it takes to be successful..and if you've seen Evans having to make "plenty of adjustments" to get the football in the correct position for Karty then this proves my point. The holders main responsibility is to catch the football and set the ball down. If the LS is doing his job correctly then Evans just needs to catch and place the ball down..It's obvious you didn't watch the video I posted..if you had you would understand want it takes and just how specialized the Long Snapper is in the NFL. I suggest you watch the video and learn how valuable and important a good Long Snapper is to a successful kicker. There are LS in the league who can tell you exactly how many revolutions the ball spins so as to get it in the holders hands so he doesn't have to spin the ball to get the laces out. The LS is so highly specialized they don't do anything else on the team..NFL teams dedicate a specific roster spot to a long snapper, a trend that began in the 1970s and is now universal across the league..The consistency, speed, and accuracy required at the professional level are so high that teams prefer a player who can devote all their practice time to perfecting this single, high-stakes skill. So actually the holder is the least important aspect to a good kicking game.

[RAMFAN71]

It seems like McVay refuses to fire that idiot Chase...so bringing in McQuade is helpful because he's a vet and he prob will serve more as a coach to the whole operation as well as the LS. The whole process is in disarray and that's on the ST coach. Need new eyes on it to fix the timing, blocking assignments, setup based on the D side, etc. This is just insane that Blackburn is still here.

[AntiGoof]

The 4 guys need to go: the Long snapper, Evans, Karty and the mediocre ST coordinator. Start from scratch.

[bigklein]

Hopefully McQuade will make a difference as a coach/mentor, at the very least, if he’s not an active player.

[brasilrams]

I agree with this take. I’ve seen the holder adjust the ball plenty of times for the kicker. The long snapper is actually the least important part of the operation, since his mistake can usually be corrected by the holder.

If you believe that the Long Snapper is the least important aspect in regards to having a good chance of making a Field Goal or a PAT then you know very little on what it takes to be successful..and if you've seen Evans having to make "plenty of adjustments" to get the football in the correct position for Karty then this proves my point. The holders main responsibility is to catch the football and set the ball down. If the LS is doing his job correctly then Evans just needs to catch and place the ball down..It's obvious you didn't watch the video I posted..if you had you would understand want it takes and just how specialized the Long Snapper is in the NFL. I suggest you watch the video and learn how valuable and important a good Long Snapper is to a successful kicker. There are LS in the league who can tell you exactly how many revolutions the ball spins so as to get it in the holders hands so he doesn't have to spin the ball to get the laces out. The LS is so highly specialized they don't do anything else on the team..NFL teams dedicate a specific roster spot to a long snapper, a trend that began in the 1970s and is now universal across the league..The consistency, speed, and accuracy required at the professional level are so high that teams prefer a player who can devote all their practice time to perfecting this single, high-stakes skill. So actually the holder is the least important aspect to a good kicking game.

I’ll have to disagree with you, and that’s it. The holder can correct the long snapper’s mistake — I’ve seen it plenty of times, not just with the Rams but with other teams as well. If the ball doesn’t arrive the way it should, the holder just adjusts it, and it’s ready for the kicker. If one guy can fix another guy’s mistake (in case he makes one), then obviously that guy is more important. That’s pure logic. If the holder is letting Karty kick the laces of the ball, then it’s his fault. Of course , ideally you can have a LS that snaps the ball correctly and the holder doesn't need to turn the ball . But the holder adjusting the ball is way more common than you think.

[Henry VIII]

If you believe that the Long Snapper is the least important aspect in regards to having a good chance of making a Field Goal or a PAT then you know very little on what it takes to be successful..and if you've seen Evans having to make "plenty of adjustments" to get the football in the correct position for Karty then this proves my point. The holders main responsibility is to catch the football and set the ball down. If the LS is doing his job correctly then Evans just needs to catch and place the ball down..It's obvious you didn't watch the video I posted..if you had you would understand want it takes and just how specialized the Long Snapper is in the NFL. I suggest you watch the video and learn how valuable and important a good Long Snapper is to a successful kicker. There are LS in the league who can tell you exactly how many revolutions the ball spins so as to get it in the holders hands so he doesn't have to spin the ball to get the laces out. The LS is so highly specialized they don't do anything else on the team..NFL teams dedicate a specific roster spot to a long snapper, a trend that began in the 1970s and is now universal across the league..The consistency, speed, and accuracy required at the professional level are so high that teams prefer a player who can devote all their practice time to perfecting this single, high-stakes skill. So actually the holder is the least important aspect to a good kicking game.

I’ll have to disagree with you, and that’s it. The holder can correct the long snapper’s mistake — I’ve seen it plenty of times, not just with the Rams but with other teams as well. If the ball doesn’t arrive the way it should, the holder just adjusts it, and it’s ready for the kicker. If one guy can fix another guy’s mistake (in case he makes one), then obviously that guy is more important. That’s pure logic. If the holder is letting Karty kick the laces of the ball, then it’s his fault. Of course , ideally you can have a LS that snaps the ball correctly and the holder doesn't need to turn the ball . But the holder adjusting the ball is way more common than you think.

Brasil..you are entirely missing the whole point here. If the holder Evans is constantly having to rotate and fix Alex Wards "simple mistake" then its a MAJOR BREAKDOWN in the whole sequence of the kicking game. You are really underestimating the position and performance of a true professional Long Snapper. Yes the holder Evans can and does make adjustments to the football..but that shows and means the system is broken..and not firing on cylinders. Which in turn leads to missed FG and PAT opportunities and its quite obvious we have that issue on the Rams. Otherwise what is McVay’s thought process in bringing back a proven veteran like Jake? To help and improve the position of the Holder? Or maybe improve our current Long Snapper it's just a thought maybe? The holder isn't nearly as valuable as a good LS is..that's why some teams use their Punter or even a backup QB..hell even WR or safeties have been used as holder so as you can see its not a highly specialized position as compared to a Kicker or the Long Snapper is..you don't see teams running out their backup QB or WR to be a Long Snapper do you? This really shouldn't even be a discussion. This process is 100% about timing and execution between these highly specialized positions and when the timing or sequence isn't perfectly done then bad things happen like missing FG/PAT..MY guess is you still haven't watched the video showing just how important and vital the position of LS is. But ok you can disagree all you want. The Rams obviously disagree with your take..

[bigklein]

It seems like this lace-rotation pattern has gotten into Karty’s head and caused him to delay out of caution.

Also, some of us were wondering after the Eagles disaster if Ward could have been doing more to disrupt the defenders. We have to remember that Ward also came into the role as a rookie when Blackburn started. Couldn’t these problems have been avoided with better coaching?

The Grisak TST article that Glendora referenced elsewhere is really good.

[Henry VIII]

It seems like this lace-rotation pattern has gotten into Karty’s head and caused him to delay out of caution.

Also, some of us were wondering after the Eagles disaster if Ward could have been doing more to disrupt the defenders. We have to remember that Ward also came into the role as a rookie when Blackburn started. Couldn’t these problems have been avoided with better coaching?

Yes exactly..and I also feel that McVay is bringing Jake back to help teach and be a good mentor for Alex..some people think the the Long Snapper position is JAG and have no clue how important and specialized they truly are..some of these JAG's are making well over 1 million dollars a season just to hike a football..not a bad paycheck for a guy who only needs to be dialed in 6-8 times a game..

[UtahRam]

Yeah, I just don't think the laces have anything do with the 4 kicks Karty has had blocked this year. I guess you could argue that Karty would have missed those kicks anyway depending on the laces but that we'll never know.

Probably not on the blocks..but you said the shanks were on Karty and possibly the Holder and rarely on the Long Snapper..when I said the its not on the Holder to put the laces out..its 99.0 on the Long Snapper to do that..I do think there's some correlation between the Long Snapper not delivering the ball to the holder correctly and some of his missed kicks or shanks as you call them.

I always thought it was the holder's responsibility to spin the ball so the laces face away from the kicker. I've seen them do that before. Maybe only the real good holders do that.

And I don't think the Long Snapper isn't important. We've basically had only three for 30 years: Robinson, Massey and McQuaide before the new guy. They were all consistently good getting the ball to the holder which is their job.

[Henry VIII]

Probably not on the blocks..but you said the shanks were on Karty and possibly the Holder and rarely on the Long Snapper..when I said the its not on the Holder to put the laces out..its 99.0 on the Long Snapper to do that..I do think there's some correlation between the Long Snapper not delivering the ball to the holder correctly and some of his missed kicks or shanks as you call them.

I always thought it was the holder's responsibility to spin the ball so the laces face away from the kicker. I've seen them do that before.Maybe only the real good holders do that.

Well if the LS does his job correctly..then the holder barely should have to rotate the ball to get the laces facing out correctly..and if the ball isn't hiked correctly to the holder then of course it's up to the holder to rotate it so the laces are facing out..but when this happens it does tend to throw off the timing sequence and sometimes bad things happen..

[brasilrams]

I’ll have to disagree with you, and that’s it. The holder can correct the long snapper’s mistake — I’ve seen it plenty of times, not just with the Rams but with other teams as well. If the ball doesn’t arrive the way it should, the holder just adjusts it, and it’s ready for the kicker. If one guy can fix another guy’s mistake (in case he makes one), then obviously that guy is more important. That’s pure logic. If the holder is letting Karty kick the laces of the ball, then it’s his fault. Of course , ideally you can have a LS that snaps the ball correctly and the holder doesn't need to turn the ball . But the holder adjusting the ball is way more common than you think.

Brasil..you are entirely missing the whole point here. If the holder Evans is constantly having to rotate and fix Alex Wards "simple mistake" then its a MAJOR BREAKDOWN in the whole sequence of the kicking game. You are really underestimating the position and performance of a true professional Long Snapper. Yes the holder Evans can and does make adjustments to the football..but that shows and means the system is broken..and not firing on cylinders. Which in turn leads to missed FG and PAT opportunities and its quite obvious we have that issue on the Rams. Otherwise what is McVay’s thought process in bringing back a proven veteran like Jake? To help and improve the position of the Holder? Or maybe improve our current Long Snapper it's just a thought maybe? The holder isn't nearly as valuable as a good LS is..that's why some teams use their Punter or even a backup QB..hell even WR or safeties have been used as holder so as you can see its not a highly specialized position as compared to a Kicker or the Long Snapper is..you don't see teams running out their backup QB or WR to be a Long Snapper do you? This really shouldn't even be a discussion. This process is 100% about timing and execution between these highly specialized positions and when the timing or sequence isn't perfectly done then bad things happen like missing FG/PAT..MY guess is you still haven't watched the video showing just how important and vital the position of LS is. But ok you can disagree all you want. The Rams obviously disagree with your take..

I didn't miss the point , I understood . I just don't agree. Changing the LS won't help much imo . And yes , the rams obviously disagree with me , and that doesn't mean they are right and I am wrong. The rams should have fired Chase Blackburn a long time ago , and the entire FAN base and MEDIA agrees with this. Our ST's have been atrocious since he arrived but Mcvay refuses to fire the guy. Is there any logical explanation for this ? Because I can't find one.

[bigklein]

Maybe they should have had more special teams competition in the offseason. Ward, Evans, and Karty were a given from the start.

[Rampager66]

When the kick gets blocked it's pretty much the failure of the O-line. The shanks are on the kicker, possibly the holder and rarely the snapper.

Disagree Here. What I've noticed is Karty's not always getting kicks up high enough, quick enough and at times looks lethargic going thru his kicking sequence. Now some of that could be attested to what's been mentioned here but some also has to be on Karty himself. He's no victim!
We see the Rams ARE trying to fix this bringing Jake back and some competition in for Karty. Hopefully it's remedied before it cost us more!