Colin on Goff - Stafford

[GlendoraRam]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Except winning a Superbowl...................

And until he does he isn't "better" than MS. And I think he is playing at top 5 level right now, still means nothing, not when only 1 team gets to be champ every year and his hasn't been..........yet.

Great to see you back on the forum!
The ultimate goal is to play and win the very last game of the season. In the end, that’s all that matters.

[HellRam]

The Rams have invested in the oline just fine. Outside of Center we have average to abve average players and even Shelton isn't terrible.

Tomorrow the Lions will be starting a 3rd string LT and a rookie RG and a first year starter at LG. And I bet they still have a better functioning offense than the Rams.

The irony is its looking more and more like Stafford was the one who needed everything "perfect" not Goff.

They both need a lot of support around them since neither is a mobile QB. In my opinion, the Lions understand that much better than the Rams — they’ve heavily invested in their offensive line and even in the running game. Gibbs is a first-round pick, while all of the Rams’ running backs were drafted in the mid rounds. Last year, the Lions’ running game was so dominant that they won games where Goff threw the ball only about a dozen times. Overall, over the past three years, Detroit’s offensive talent has been much stronger.

They have Gibbs / Montgomery we have fumbling machine KY. They have laporta we have highbee ( lol), they have a better o line ( usually at least)....... Ok we have puka but that is about it and st brown is almost as good as puka. So we have a better wr1 and they have better everything else.

Like I posted in this thread ealier. The Lions were a top 5 scoring offense with Swift and Williams. And most viewed Montgomery a jag before he played with Goff. So the talent matters. But they've been phenomenal at plug and play and that's due to Goff being arguably the most efficient passer in the league.

But I agree their RB room is better and TE. The Rams have better recievers and depth at that group.

[brasilrams]

They both need a lot of support around them since neither is a mobile QB. In my opinion, the Lions understand that much better than the Rams — they’ve heavily invested in their offensive line and even in the running game. Gibbs is a first-round pick, while all of the Rams’ running backs were drafted in the mid rounds. Last year, the Lions’ running game was so dominant that they won games where Goff threw the ball only about a dozen times. Overall, over the past three years, Detroit’s offensive talent has been much stronger.

They have Gibbs / Montgomery we have fumbling machine KY. They have laporta we have highbee ( lol), they have a better o line ( usually at least)....... Ok we have puka but that is about it and st brown is almost as good as puka. So we have a better wr1 and they have better everything else.

Like I posted in this thread ealier. The Lions were a top 5 scoring offense with Swift and Williams. And most viewed Montgomery a jag before he played with Goff. So the talent matters. But they've been phenomenal at plug and play and that's due to Goff being arguably the most efficient passer in the league.

But I agree their RB room is better and TE. The Rams have better recievers and depth at that group.

I would say Oline , RB and TEs are better over there . With PUKA and Adams AND all the depth we have at WR ( Wit , Tutu etc ) , our WR room wins the battle .

[HellRam]

Like I posted in this thread ealier. The Lions were a top 5 scoring offense with Swift and Williams. And most viewed Montgomery a jag before he played with Goff. So the talent matters. But they've been phenomenal at plug and play and that's due to Goff being arguably the most efficient passer in the league.

But I agree their RB room is better and TE. The Rams have better recievers and depth at that group.

I would say Oline , RB and TEs are better over there . With PUKA and Adams AND all the depth we have at WR ( Wit , Tutu etc ) , our WR room wins the battle .

I'd actually take the Rams oline. Outside of Sewell who is better than our guys? Sewell is phenomenal and I like the rookie Ratledge a lot but he's not better than Dotson right now.

[brasilrams]

I would say Oline , RB and TEs are better over there . With PUKA and Adams AND all the depth we have at WR ( Wit , Tutu etc ) , our WR room wins the battle .

I'd actually take the Rams oline. Outside of Sewell who is better than our guys? Sewell is phenomenal and I like the rookie Ratledge a lot but he's not better than Dotson right now.

Sewell is 300 times better than Hav, and Glasgow is 300 times better than Shelton at center.

At LT, Alaric is slightly better than Decker (66 vs. 63 pass-blocking grades). At RG, Dotson is definitely better than Tate. And at LG, Avila is better than Mahogany — but Avila is always hurt, so we really have to compare Dedich to Mahogany. And Dedich has a 29 pass-blocking grade (WTF!), so as mediocre as Mahogany is, he’s way better than Dedich.

So, as of now — since Avila has been out since Week 1 — the Lions have 3 players who are better (RT, C, LG), and the Rams have 2 (RG, LT). Once Avila returns, the Rams will have 3 better players.

But we’re talking 2025 here… I’m too lazy to check the last 3 years, but I’d bet the Lions have had the better O-line overall.

[HellRam]

I'd actually take the Rams oline. Outside of Sewell who is better than our guys? Sewell is phenomenal and I like the rookie Ratledge a lot but he's not better than Dotson right now.

Sewell is 300 times better than Hav, and Glasgow is 300 times better than Shelton at center.

At LT, Alaric is slightly better than Decker (66 vs. 63 pass-blocking grades). At RG, Dotson is definitely better than Tate. And at LG, Avila is better than Mahogany — but Avila is always hurt, so we really have to compare Dedich to Mahogany. And Dedich has a 29 pass-blocking grade (WTF!), so as mediocre as Mahogany is, he’s way better than Dedich.

So, as of now — since Avila has been out since Week 1 — the Lions have 3 players who are better (RT, C, LG), and the Rams have 2 (RG, LT). Once Avila returns, the Rams will have 3 better players.

But we’re talking 2025 here… I’m too lazy to check the last 3 years, but I’d bet the Lions have had the better O-line overall.

Overall the last 3 years yes. And the Lions have had the same issues with oline injuries. To they are starting the 3rd string LT.

[GlendoraRam]

Goff and Stafford are different. Goff excels at short fast releases, Stafford is a gunslinger.

[Henry VIII]

Maybe you should go back to the place where you received your Law degree from and ask them to help you better understand the premise of what a team friendly contract is and I'll watch the game tomorrow..
No, Terrion Arnold was not demoted, but he's not playing tomorrow because of an injury. He suffered a shoulder injury in Week 5..I Don't think an injury is considered a demotion. He played in all 5 of of Lions games this year..he did have early growing pains like a lot of rookies do Mr game watcher. And Terrion might be back this month after a second opinion.

Nope,I watch the games. He was demoted prior to the injury. He is the 133rd ranked CB. Don't be a jerk to me just for stating factual information.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/terrio ... QvncC9Ayok


And yes when your making less money than Purdy, Law,Tua,ect. Your deal is pretty team friendly considering the production.

And no like I said..Goff didn't give the Lions a team friendly discount at all..All the QBs you mentioned as an example signed AFTER Goff put pen to paper..so that's why his deal is slightly less..it stands to reason as it goes in the NFL in regards to contracts the next guy up.. usually always has a bigger contract than the last guy who just signed.

[Truth]

Goff is far better QB than Stafford now and is doing things in Detroit that Stafford was never able to do his entire time there.

If McVay had a better relationship with Goff or trusted him more to run offense (he basically never let Goff audible or do anything on his own) I think he’d have had just as much success in LA.

Some fans tend to overrate a few games in the playoffs to justify the trade , but I don’t. Nick Foles went on a heater to win the Super Bowl. So did Joe Flacco. Eli did it twice. Doesn’t mean they are better QBs than other guys that haven’t won. Stafford winning one season doesn’t mean he’s overall better than Goff.

They both are comfort QBs that need guys around them to be good. But Goff has so many years ahead of him that if you went back, knowing the production Goff had gotten since, I doubt the Rams make the trade. But clearly the relationship between McVay/Goff had simply been destroyed at that point

[AntiGoof]

Goof has been good at marketting himself as the poor little victim Mc Vay wouldn't trust, but the truth is in Detroit he's basically Stat Padford 2.0: great numbers during the regular season because he has a shitton of incredible weapons, but in the playoffs he has choked like a little bitch year after year after year.
He's a good QB, not a great one, he's Kirk Cousins or Matt Ryan.

Let's switch Goff and Stafford once again now, and Staff would probably win a SB ring in his first year back in Detroit, while Goof would be 9/8 - 8/9 in LA.

[HellRam]

Goff is far better QB than Stafford now and is doing things in Detroit that Stafford was never able to do his entire time there.

If McVay had a better relationship with Goff or trusted him more to run offense (he basically never let Goff audible or do anything on his own) I think he’d have had just as much success in LA.

Some fans tend to overrate a few games in the playoffs to justify the trade , but I don’t. Nick Foles went on a heater to win the Super Bowl. So did Joe Flacco. Eli did it twice. Doesn’t mean they are better QBs than other guys that haven’t won. Stafford winning one season doesn’t mean he’s overall better than Goff.

They both are comfort QBs that need guys around them to be good. But Goff has so many years ahead of him that if you went back, knowing the production Goff had gotten since, I doubt the Rams make the trade. But clearly the relationship between McVay/Goff had simply been destroyed at that point

Well I'd say Stafford has been better with the Rams and Goff with Detroit. Would I say Goff is "far" better? I wouldn't. Stafford is still a very solid QB. But Goff does currently play more consistently better football. Particularly with his accuracy. There isn't a better thrower of the football in the league right now than Goff.

[Truth]

Goff is far better QB than Stafford now and is doing things in Detroit that Stafford was never able to do his entire time there.

If McVay had a better relationship with Goff or trusted him more to run offense (he basically never let Goff audible or do anything on his own) I think he’d have had just as much success in LA.

Some fans tend to overrate a few games in the playoffs to justify the trade , but I don’t. Nick Foles went on a heater to win the Super Bowl. So did Joe Flacco. Eli did it twice. Doesn’t mean they are better QBs than other guys that haven’t won. Stafford winning one season doesn’t mean he’s overall better than Goff.

They both are comfort QBs that need guys around them to be good. But Goff has so many years ahead of him that if you went back, knowing the production Goff had gotten since, I doubt the Rams make the trade. But clearly the relationship between McVay/Goff had simply been destroyed at that point

Well I'd say Stafford has been better with the Rams and Goff with Detroit. Would I say Goff is "far" better? I wouldn't. Stafford is still a very solid QB. But Goff does currently play more consistently better football. Particularly with his accuracy. There isn't a better thrower of the football in the league right now than Goff.

What I’m saying is that if the Rams knew Goff would put up the numbers in Detroit that he has since trading him, they’d have never done it given what they gave up.

Even if you think Stafford/Goff are equal, one is way younger and the Rams gave up a ton in the trade.

I’m convinced the Rams thought Goff was on the level of say a Kirk Cousins, not a Drew Brees. And the relationship between McVay/Goff was so bad they just decided to try something different. If they knew he’d develop in Detroit to someone much closer to Brees, they’d have ridden with him and kept the 2 firsr rounders

[Cornell29]

Rams getting Stafford was the right move. Rams had to win now. AD and Whit was flirting with retirement. Rams needed to win ASAP. They didnt have another 2 to 3 years waiting for Goff.

By the time Goff is ready, AD and Whit is retired and Kupp is no longer a top wr.

Rams seen the opportunity to win now and took it. Guess what they won a SB.

I would never undo the trade

[HellRam]

Well I'd say Stafford has been better with the Rams and Goff with Detroit. Would I say Goff is "far" better? I wouldn't. Stafford is still a very solid QB. But Goff does currently play more consistently better football. Particularly with his accuracy. There isn't a better thrower of the football in the league right now than Goff.

What I’m saying is that if the Rams knew Goff would put up the numbers in Detroit that he has since trading him, they’d have never done it given what they gave up.

Even if you think Stafford/Goff are equal, one is way younger and the Rams gave up a ton in the trade.

I’m convinced the Rams thought Goff was on the level of say a Kirk Cousins, not a Drew Brees. And the relationship between McVay/Goff was so bad they just decided to try something different. If they knew he’d develop in Detroit to someone much closer to Brees, they’d have ridden with him and kept the 2 firsr rounders

As far as value.....the Lions won the trade. I agree 100% and even though I said Stafford was a better QB at the time. I also said the Rams gave up too much in the trade. Nobody lost the trade, it worked for both sides.

And yes we won a ring with Matt. But it's a team game. Trent Dilfer has won a ring while Marino, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson haven't. So I dont use the ring argument as a justification. The Rams could have sold out when Goff was here. They chose not too. Obviously Stafford was pivotal that year. Dude is one of the most fun QBs to watch. But I can't honestly say he's been the better "QB" at this point. But for 2021 he was the right QB.

[Truth]

What I’m saying is that if the Rams knew Goff would put up the numbers in Detroit that he has since trading him, they’d have never done it given what they gave up.

Even if you think Stafford/Goff are equal, one is way younger and the Rams gave up a ton in the trade.

I’m convinced the Rams thought Goff was on the level of say a Kirk Cousins, not a Drew Brees. And the relationship between McVay/Goff was so bad they just decided to try something different. If they knew he’d develop in Detroit to someone much closer to Brees, they’d have ridden with him and kept the 2 firsr rounders

As far as value.....the Lions won the trade. I agree 100% and even though I said Stafford was a better QB at the time. I also said the Rams gave up too much in the trade. Nobody lost the trade, it worked for both sides.

And yes we won a ring with Matt. But it's a team game. Trent Dilfer has won a ring while Marino, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson haven't. So I dont use the ring argument as a justification. The Rams could have sold out when Goff was here. They chose not too. Obviously Stafford was pivotal that year. Dude is one of the most fun QBs to watch. But I can't honestly say he's been the better "QB" at this point. But for 2021 he was the right QB.

But I think the issue is why was Stafford better in 2021? IMO it’s because McVay simply didn’t gel with Goff. He didn’t develop him enough, at least not the way he’s really blossomed in Detroit. I think it goes back to two things:

#1. Goff wasn’t drafted by McVay. McVay inherited him and obviously got more production than Fisher, but maybe he never really believed Goff was a guy to elevate that team and thus never allowed him that responsibility.

#2. In terms of personality, McVay brought in Stafford. And also brought in Baker Mayfield. Two gunslinger type QBs. Maybe that’s the type of guy McVay wants to coach and thus he’d have never gotten what the Lions have gotten out of Goff.

To me the trade is about McVay/Goff relationship. And who knows maybe it was something as petty as the comments Goff made about McVay’s wife if that was true. If the relationship was better, the Rams coiod have won with Goff. It wasn’t. They tried a new guy and had success in 2021 at possible expense of years 2022-2027

[HellRam]

As far as value.....the Lions won the trade. I agree 100% and even though I said Stafford was a better QB at the time. I also said the Rams gave up too much in the trade. Nobody lost the trade, it worked for both sides.

And yes we won a ring with Matt. But it's a team game. Trent Dilfer has won a ring while Marino, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson haven't. So I dont use the ring argument as a justification. The Rams could have sold out when Goff was here. They chose not too. Obviously Stafford was pivotal that year. Dude is one of the most fun QBs to watch. But I can't honestly say he's been the better "QB" at this point. But for 2021 he was the right QB.

But I think the issue is why was Stafford better in 2021? IMO it’s because McVay simply didn’t gel with Goff. He didn’t develop him enough, at least not the way he’s really blossomed in Detroit. I think it goes back to two things:

#1. Goff wasn’t drafted by McVay. McVay inherited him and obviously got more production than Fisher, but maybe he never really believed Goff was a guy to elevate that team and thus never allowed him that responsibility.

#2. In terms of personality, McVay brought in Stafford. And also brought in Baker Mayfield. Two gunslinger type QBs. Maybe that’s the type of guy McVay wants to coach and thus he’d have never gotten what the Lions have gotten out of Goff.

To me the trade is about McVay/Goff relationship. If it was better, the Rams coiod have won with Goff. It wasn’t. They tried a new guy and had success in 2021 at possible expense of years 2022-2027

Agree 100%

Goff is McVays biggest failure. When Goff left and 2 years later he's leading the Lions to a top 5 scoring offense. That sort of disbands the offensive "genuis" label regarding McVay in my opinion. Who's to say the Rams don't build a mini dynasty had they kept Goff, the picks and extra cap space. If we're calling a spade a spade....Goff is much more effective at generating points.

There's lots to this. But for 2021 Stafford was the right guy. I'll never say he wasn't. But I agree with your overall sentiment.

Edit: The Goff joke about McVays wife is a fake story. It came from a Twitter account like the Bee. If you're familiar.

[SoCalRam78]

What did Goof do last postseason against a very mid Commanders team at home in playoffs? 4 turnovers. Don’t care anbout defensive injuries. 3 picks annd a fumble. Enough said.

Also Rams never win in 2021 w Goof. Maybe Goof is better today than he was in 2021, Detroit obv talented on offense, but Stafford was huge on that run. Tampa and Niners. Go look at those games.

[SoCalRam78]

Stafford delivered a Super Bowl, Goff has not. Case closed.

Literally the point of trade. Stafford is on bonus time too. Thought he’d be a 3 year guy here.

[ocram23]

What did Goof do last postseason against a very mid Commanders team at home in playoffs? 4 turnovers. Don’t care anbout defensive injuries. 3 picks annd a fumble. Enough said.

Also Rams never win in 2021 w Goof. Maybe Goof is better today than he was in 2021, Detroit obv talented on offense, but Stafford was huge on that run. Tampa and Niners. Go look at those games.

agree he was horrible but you could argue either him or baker are leading the MVP race right now

[Cornell29]

What did Goof do last postseason against a very mid Commanders team at home in playoffs? 4 turnovers. Don’t care anbout defensive injuries. 3 picks annd a fumble. Enough said.

Also Rams never win in 2021 w Goof. Maybe Goof is better today than he was in 2021, Detroit obv talented on offense, but Stafford was huge on that run. Tampa and Niners. Go look at those games.

agree he was horrible but you could argue either him or baker are leading the MVP race right now

Stafford is right there in the mix with them

[HellRam]

agree he was horrible but you could argue either him or baker are leading the MVP race right now

Stafford is right there in the mix with them

Rams are 14th in PPG. You're kidding right?

[Cornell29]

Stafford is right there in the mix with them

Rams are 14th in PPG. You're kidding right?

I said Stafford not the offense, defense and special team scoring, which ppg includes. Stafford numbers are right with Baker.

Chiefs are 12th in ppg and Mahomes is in the MVP race as well

[Cornell29]

Got Goff 6th bc his team is loaded

[HellRam]

Rams are 14th in PPG. You're kidding right?

I said Stafford not the offense, defense and special team scoring, which ppg includes. Stafford numbers are right with Baker

The numbers look good but he's not passing the eye test right now in my opinion. Just leaving too many plays on tbe field right now. Not saying he hasn't been good. But it's B- play. Not MVP level.

[Cornell29]

Drake May odds for MVP is increasing, despite the Pats being 12th in ppg.

[Cornell29]

I said Stafford not the offense, defense and special team scoring, which ppg includes. Stafford numbers are right with Baker

The numbers look good but he's not passing the eye test right now in my opinion. Just leaving too many plays on tbe field right now. Not saying he hasn't been good. But it's B- play. Not MVP level.

DKSportsbook/$$$$$ says different

[HellRam]

The numbers look good but he's not passing the eye test right now in my opinion. Just leaving too many plays on tbe field right now. Not saying he hasn't been good. But it's B- play. Not MVP level.

DKSportsbook says different

I don't give a damn.

When your the QB of a team pacing the 2nd most points in thr entire history of this league. You should be the favorite or runner-up.

When the media starts getting things right more often. I'll take them more seriously.

[Cornell29]

DKSportsbook says different

I don't give a damn.

When your the QB of a team pacing the 2nd most points in thr entire history of this league. You should be the favorite or runner-up.

When the media starts getting things right more often. I'll take them more seriously.

Media??
DK Sportbook isn't the media
This is the money, the bookies the gamblers. The people who just dont talk it, they put their $$$$ behind it

[HellRam]

I don't give a damn.

When your the QB of a team pacing the 2nd most points in thr entire history of this league. You should be the favorite or runner-up.

When the media starts getting things right more often. I'll take them more seriously.

Media??
DK Sportbook isn't the media
This is the money, the bookies the gamblers. The people who just dont talk it, they put their $$$$ behind it

So that really proves my point!

You dont understand how books work do you?

[Cornell29]

Media??
DK Sportbook isn't the media
This is the money, the bookies the gamblers. The people who just dont talk it, they put their $$$$ behind it

So that really proves my point!

You dont understand how books work do you?

I do and it's about spreading out the money so the house always win. But they dont even have Goff top 5

He is +1500

[HellRam]

Not trying to be a dick but here is a quick summary of how books work -


AI Overview -



"It is correct that sportsbooks are designed to make money, not to simply identify the "best" team. The odds are set to manage risk and encourage balanced betting, which guarantees a profit for the sportsbook over time, regardless of the outcome of any single game. "