8-67 Versus Winning Teams. That Can't Be <checking earpiece> I'm Actually Being Told That Is Correct.

[RamPower]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Perfectly stated. Wouldn't change a word.

If Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers were Drafted 1st Overall by the God-Awful Lions in 2009 and stayed with them until 2020 they would have completely different careers.

A. They wouldn't have their shiny Super Bowl Rings on their fingers
B. There's no guarantee they would sit perennially within the top 5 of the position for the majority of their careers.

Having said that, Rodgers probably would have either demanded certain changes in Detroit, or forcefully pushed his way out of there. Two things Stafford is not wired to do or just didnt do.

But I can EASILY go along with Rodgers and Wilson being ranked ahead of Stafford as i currently have them both ranked ahead of him myself.

However, IMO, going forward:

Stafford 2021-2028 >>>> Russell Wilson 2021-2028
Stafford 2021-2028 >>>> Aaron Rodgers 2021- 2028

Russell is starting to feel the effects of the punishment and Aaron has 2 years left maybe 3 and a BIG maybe.

And 11 or 12 wins for a Stafford-led Rams in 21? About the same as our prognosis with Aaron or Russell. Personally i got Matt in the 12-13 range.

Yep.

So yeah, hard to say.

I mean the comparing Stafford to two first ballot HOF'ers for starters. Is Stafford one too? No, not at this point.

Would he be if he had played for those same Green Bay & SEA teams? That's the hard to say part. But I'm pretty sure he would have had a Super Bowl win with SEA when their run game and defense was so devastating. With Green Bay? Idk, quite possibly.

But regardless, he would be looked at quite a bit differently right now. The Lions have mostly sucked as a team. That defense, yikes. If he had the consistent defense he had for his playoff years, wow that record against winning teams would look a lot  different I'm quit sure.

The whole win/loss thing for QB's seems stupid to me overall. Whatever, I'm sure the right team can win a Super Bowl with M. Stafford. The Rams could very well be that team.

[D-GenerationX]

Well Stafford gets zero excuses. He better be winning most of his games this season.

McVay might have some problems too.

His premise is that Goff limited what he could do and a guy like Stafford was what he needed to unlock the offense's potential.

There is also the thinking that the Lions are what was holding Stafford back. Get him in a better situation, watch him soar.

I think most people subscribe to all 3 of those premises. I'm willing to accept them, for sure.

But that's my part of this. And I've done it. Its the part of any fan or commentator. Accept the premises that they put forth.

It's on the principals to prove them true.

[RamPower]

Well Stafford gets zero excuses. He better be winning most of his games this season.

McVay might have some problems too.

His premise is that Goff limited what he could do and a guy like Stafford was what he needed to unlock the offense's potential.

There is also the thinking that the Lions are what was holding Stafford back. Get him in a better situation, watch him soar.

I think most people subscribe to all 3 of those premises. I'm willing to accept them, for sure.

But that's my part of this. And I've done it. Its the part of any fan or commentator. Accept the premises that they put forth.

It's on the principals to prove them true.

If Stafford takes a pounding due a sub-par O-line/run game, well it's something to watch for. Regardless, I can't see him melting down the way Goff did last year at times if under those same conditions.

One more time, what would the LV odds be for this Rams season if J. Goff were still here? Probably finishing last in the NFC West for starters...

[RamPower]

If Stafford takes a pounding due a sub-par O-line/run game, well it's something to watch for. Regardless, I can't see him melting down the way Goff did last year at times if under those same conditions.

One more time, what would the LV odds be for this Rams season if J. Goff were still here? Probably finishing last in the NFC West for starters...

Weren't those the odds last year too? We have a better offense this year then last year but some how how would be worse? How does that work...

We were one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl last year? That's interesting (and surprising) if so. Regardless, then the meh offense and Goff unfolded in the meantime Thus, yes I can see the possibility of the Rams predicted to come in last in the NFC West this year if Goff was still on the roster.

The Rams failed to even make the playoffs going into last year...and I doubt many saw the Rams coming in as having the #1 defense in 2020 as well...

[RamPower]

We were one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl last year? That's interesting (and surprising) if so. Regardless, then the meh offense and Goff unfolded. in the meantime Thus, yes I can see the possibility of the Rams predicted to come in last in the NFC West this year if Goff was still on the roster.

No, last season the Rams were predicted to be last or 3rd by much of the odds I saw. We finished 2nd exceeding those predictions.

Regardless, with Goff last year we finished with 10 wins. This year we have Van J in his 2nd year, Jackson and Atwell. Plus our oline should improve slightly. So I have a hard time believe we would be worse then last year when the team improved on offense.

Again, the Rams had the (unexpected) best defense in the League last year. Goff wasn't too close to being the best at anything obviously, his worst year since Fisher.

Las Vegas loves Stafford on the Rams. Me too...who's predicting the Rams aren't a top contender?

[Cornell29]

It's amazing that two young bright head coaches like Mcvay and Shanahan would want Stafford at qb with that horrible record.

[RamPower]

Again, the Rams had the (unexpected) best defense in the League last year. Goff wasn't too close to being the best at anything obviously, his worst year since Fisher.

Las Vegas loves Stafford on the Rams. Me too...who's predicting the Rams aren't a top contender?

Well I predicted 11 or 12 wins. So I can't speak for others. I'm just pointing out what occurred.

I'll try again - looks like I had a post disappear.

I'm totally with you on the win total. Hey, the NFL is fierce. But I'm still missing the validity of you presentation.

The Rams weren't rated a contender going into last year (how many wins did you predict then btw?). They are now tho.

And it isn't the chiefly the "improvements" to the receiver corp, or the potentially better O-line. Hell, the loss of coaching staff is at least a push there.

Let's be clear. It's Stafford replacing Goff.

[RamPower]

Again, the Rams had the (unexpected) best defense in the League last year. Goff wasn't too close to being the best at anything obviously, his worst year since Fisher.

Las Vegas loves Stafford on the Rams. Me too...who's predicting the Rams aren't a top contender?

Well I predicted 11 or 12 wins. So I can't speak for others. I'm just pointing out what occurred.

That's fine - I'm totally with you on the win total. Hey, the NFL is fierce. But I'm still missing the validity of you presentation.

The Rams weren't rated a contender going into last year (how many wins did you predict then btw?). They are now tho.

And it isn't chiefly the "improvements" to the receiver corp, or the potentially better O-line. Hell, the loss of coaching staff is at least a push there.

Let's be clear. It's Stafford replacing Goff.

[Cornell29]

That's fine - I'm totally with you on the win total. Hey, the NFL is fierce. But I'm still missing the validity of you presentation.

The Rams weren't rated a contender going into last year (how many wins did you predict then btw?). They are now tho.

And it isn't chiefly the "improvements" to the receiver corp, or the potentially better O-line.

Let's be clear. It's Stafford replacing Goff.

That's fine and the dream team was considered a great team at onw point, JMarcus Russel was a consensus number one pick, Greg Robinson was going to a futre HOF LT and I could go on.

If the Rams win 15 or 16 games with Stafford being the biggest culprit then the predictors will be right. If the Rams are no better then last year, well then it was just anouther hype story that didn't pan out and it happens every single year. This idea that predictions can never be wrong because Vegas says so just isn't something I abide too.

If the qb play drastically improves under Stafford vs last year, then it was a win. Stafford has to drastically out produce what Goff did last year. (Tds, yards, td to int ratio, etc)

I can't blame Stafford if the rams lose games bc the D isn't the best in the NFL anymore.

[RamPower]

That's fine - I'm totally with you on the win total. Hey, the NFL is fierce. But I'm still missing the validity of you presentation.

The Rams weren't rated a contender going into last year (how many wins did you predict then btw?). They are now tho.

And it isn't chiefly the "improvements" to the receiver corp, or the potentially better O-line.

Let's be clear. It's Stafford replacing Goff.

That's fine and the dream team was considered a great team at one point, JMarcus Russel was a consensus number one pick, Greg Robinson was going to a futre HOF LT and I could go on.

If the Rams win 15 or 16 games with Stafford being the biggest culprit then the predictors will be right. If the Rams are no better then last year, well then it was just anouther hype story that didn't pan out and it happens every single year. This idea that predictions can never be wrong because Vegas says so just isn't something I abide too.

Obviously anything can happen. It's why it's called gambling. But they are the best at laying out the odds. Ill take them over you regardless. I think we're done here

[Bulldawg]

It's amazing that two young bright head coaches like Mcvay and Shanahan would want Stafford at qb with that horrible record.

Shanahan didn't offer anything more then a 2nd rounder. Sooo that premise is false and has been proven false considering they offered more for Lance.

McVay also thought it was okay to let Saffold go. So coaches makw mistakes believe it or not. I'm not saying Stafford is a mistake. But that doesn't mean some of us are going to ignore certain aspects of this deal.

We don't know what Shanahan was going to offer. The deal was done before he could even focus on it. He wasn't happy about it and he fell in love more with Stafford the more he saw him.

This debate will never end since we can never put Stafford on last year's Rams team, nor can we put Wilson on a past Detroit team. Wilson might have won 2-3 games that Stafford did...but I am not sure. Also, Stafford DID make the Lions a better team. Just think how bad their overall record would have been WITHOUT Stafford. They absolutely sucked. He made the whole team better...the issue is they were in the gutter so 50% more wins was still bad.

[Cornell29]

If the qb play drastically improves under Stafford vs last year, then it was a win.

I can't blame Stafford if the rams lose games bc the D isn't the best in the NFL anymore.

Well I can because we acquired Stafford to make up for those deficiencies. Say what you want but if we are not a significantly better team the trade will be questionable. That doesn't mean I will blame Stafford but at the same time. He was brought here for a reason. It wasnt like we got him for free.

He was brought here to significantly improve the passing game. I agree he was brought in to make up for some offensive deficiencies. For example he is supposed to make up for some ol deficiencies, so even if the ol didn't improve from last year, im expecting Stafford to over come those issues better than Goff did. That's why he is here.

But he wasn't brought here to improve the pass rush or tackling or kicking etc. Which all effects wins and losses.

[Bulldawg]

We don't know what Shanahan was going to offer. The deal was done before he could even focus on it. He wasn't happy about it and he fell in love more with Stafford the more he saw him.

This debate will never end since we can never put Stafford on last year's Rams team, nor can we put Wilson on a past Detroit team. Wilson might have one 2-3 games that Stafford did...but I am not sure. Also, Stafford DID make the Lions a better team. Just think how bad their overall record would have been WITHOUT Stafford. They absolutely sucked. He made the whole team better...the issue is they were in the gutter so 50% more wins was still bad.

Now true. It was reported what they offered. They actually offered a week before the Rams did.

Who ever starts out with their highest bid? You think Shanahan wants Jimmy to know what they were going to give up? I am not saying they offered anything else, BUT we will never know what they were willing to offer (or even offered).

[Cornell29]

Kyle never had a chance to make a offer


See below

As Shanahan told it, he was in Cabo when the deal went down. He had studied film on Stafford prior to the trade and came away impressed. He told McVay and Schrager that he wanted the 49ers to be "involved" in trade talks.

A few hours before the deal went down, Shanahan got a call saying he was safe to enjoy his night.

"We talked to someone, it was like 7 at night. And they were like, 'No, nothing is happening at the earliest until tomorrow, so you can finish your night.' So I'm like, 'Alright, I'm done.' Put my phone down, talked to Mandy, I'm like, 'Alright, let's go out to dinner, let's have some drinks.'"

A half hour later, Shanahan got another call from a "friend" who told Shanahan if he wanted Stafford, he needed to get in touch with Stafford right now. Shanahan waved that off, saying he just heard he could wait until tomorrow. Shortly after that, he saw the notification that the Rams acquired Stafford

McVay, whose team made the move to pick up Stafford, told Shanahan the deal came together faster than McVay expected.

https://sports.yahoo.com/kyle-shanahan- ... 09111.html

[RamPower]

Obviously anything can happen. It's why it's called gambling. But they are the best at laying out the odds. Ill take them over you regardless. I think we're done here

That explains why you're always wrong ;)

Like when you said Fisher was a good coach or when you called me "RamHell" because I stated the fact Robinson couldn't play LT. Do you RamPower I've been owning you for years.

That's probably why I get under your skin so much.

Oh and didn't you just agree with my win prediction? Or are backing out of that one now? You're funny goober bro.

Lol. Dude you are just a classic narcissistic windbag that can never let a poor idea go. Never. You are no more relevant then even the worst poster here, tho you sure love yourself huh This is just typical you devolving into acting like  a toddler. 

I liked Fisher? He was a QB killer. He went from a respectable coach (bringing the Rams out of the cesspool), to eventually proving the NFL passed him by. Whatever, look who gets under who's skin  Grow up.

[Cornell29]

Kyle never had a chance to make a offer


See below

As Shanahan told it, he was in Cabo when the deal went down. He had studied film on Stafford prior to the trade and came away impressed. He told McVay and Schrager that he wanted the 49ers to be "involved" in trade talks.

A few hours before the deal went down, Shanahan got a call saying he was safe to enjoy his night.

"We talked to someone, it was like 7 at night. And they were like, 'No, nothing is happening at the earliest until tomorrow, so you can finish your night.' So I'm like, 'Alright, I'm done.' Put my phone down, talked to Mandy, I'm like, 'Alright, let's go out to dinner, let's have some drinks.'"

A half hour later, Shanahan got another call from a "friend" who told Shanahan if he wanted Stafford, he needed to get in touch with Stafford right now. Shanahan waved that off, saying he just heard he could wait until tomorrow. Shortly after that, he saw the notification that the Rams acquired Stafford

McVay, whose team made the move to pick up Stafford, told Shanahan the deal came together faster than McVay expected.

https://sports.yahoo.com/kyle-shanahan- ... 09111.html

Wrong!

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/4 ... ex7akc4k4t

These are adults dude and the niners had premium 1st round pick in this years draft. If they wanted him they could have got him. Quit being obtuse Cornell.

Who is the source? Vincent Frank? My link has Shanahan as the source. Vincent Frank doesn't even sound confident " From what he knows" he said

[Cornell29]

Who is the source? My link has Shanahan as the source. Who is the source for yours? Let me guess unknown?

Oh you mean coach speak???

Your source is Vincent Frank? Who doesn't even sound confident. He said "From what he knows"

I need better then that.

Let me get this right, Shanahan admits he wanted to make a offer for Stafford but lies and says he didnt have a chance too. Even though the so called offer that only Vincent Frank came across, didn't involve any players. So why would Shanahan lie?

[RamPower]

If the qb play drastically improves under Stafford vs last year, then it was a win. Stafford has to drastically out produce what Goff did last year. (Tds, yards, td to int ratio, etc)

I can't blame Stafford if the rams lose games bc the D isn't the best in the NFL anymore.

Of course. Perfect sense. Yet, that wont stop some from doing just that. See Wolford: 9 points blah-blah-blah. Folks with an agenda.

Lol, yep. Can you imagine if Las Vegas acted out of emotion and agenda instead of research? There would be no more Las Vegas betting They are the best, and make a ton of money for good reason.

[NorCal RF]

The Rams and Stafford haven't even played a game yet and everyone is whining already.

Goog Lord

This^

[RamPower]

The Rams and Stafford haven't even played a game yet and everyone is whining already.

Goog Lord

This^

By "this", are you referring to the 8-67? 'Cause most fans seem stoked with Stafford as a Ram. I know I am

[Cornell29]

Your source is Vincent Frank? Who doesn't even sound confident. He said "From what he knows"

I need better then that.

I dont! I prefer what actually occured as opposed to hypothetical coach speak. You can say this or that at the end of the day no other team offered what the Rams did.

#factsmatter

Lol

Vincent Frank, your source, got called out and back tracked on his own tweet that the niners made a official offer after Albert Breer tweet

At least he got you to believe it. Lol

[RamPower]

Lol, yep. Can you imagine if Las Vegas acted out of emotion and agenda instead of research? There would be no more Las Vegas betting They are the best, and make a ton of money for good reason.

I would agree.

Unfortunately fellow posters here like RamPower and Mike Schad whine cry n moan anytime someone says something they don't agree with.

You guys should be like me and Vegas! Smart, make money and usually right!

whatever makes you feel better about yourself I mean I know you're the only one that brings the facts

[RamPower]

Ok, who got Hellram/Ramhell going on one of his bad days, again? Come on guys, I thought we talked about this.

Really?

I thought I was kicking ass today. I mean I gave Stafford and the Rams props all while being honest and objective. You guys probably got mad at the "honest" and "objective" part. My bad guys.

I think some of yall just need to act like men and grow when someone says something you don't agree with. Maybe HellRam needs to have a man camp where we toughen you ladies up some???

lol, kicking ass yeah You'd need to step up your game a few notches just to be able to kiss ass. Uh huh, you're doing great

[Cornell29]

Oh my...

#FACTSDOMATTER

I cant wait to see HR's reply to this one.

This just made my point!

Only the Rams offered what they did!

You guys are hilarious! Thanks for proving me right ;)

So you think that 2021 8th pick overall isn't worth a late 2022 1st rounder and late 2023 first rounder?

The niners gave up 2 future first rounders to move up 9 spots in the draft. Rams 1st rounders will more likely be between mid 20s and 30s. What did you expect the rams have to give up to match the 8th overall in 2021 that Carolina offered?

[RamPower]

Ok, who got Hellram/Ramhell going on one of his bad days, again? Come on guys, I thought we talked about this.

Really?

I thought I was kicking ass today. I mean I gave Stafford and the Rams props all while being honest and objective. You guys probably got mad at the "honest" and "objective" part. My bad guys.

I think some of yall just need to act like men and grow when someone says something you don't agree with. Maybe HellRam needs to have a man camp where we toughen you ladies up some???

Hellram man camp = toddler day care ;)

[toast49]

Sometimes these threads go way too long. I'm giving Stafford zero excuses. Not about stats, it's about winning. If we have a lead going into the second half of games we need to win every time just like we have been.

[RamPower]

Sometimes these threads go way too long. I'm giving Stafford zero excuses. Not about stats, it's about winning. If we have a lead going into the second half of games we need to win every time just like we have been.

Lol, aren't wins and losses stats?

It's about evaluating players AND teams. You can't ignore stats obviously. You can't ignore player stats or teams stats.

It's why players coming from so many college conferences big and small is so hard to evaluate/project success. Think all QB's etc. that come from winning teams will be good NFL players?

I'd love to see Stafford placed in a position to demonstrate his comeback abilities. Hopefully the Rams will be good enough to let him coast to many wins as well (obviously something he's not used to)...

[RamPower]

Haha well I'd say old timers lose reading and comprehension skills as age progresses. Y'all just gotta keep up and read slower ;)

Excpet for RamPower he just thinks everything revoles around QAnaon and Las Vegas and if you dont abide to those principals you dont know anything. Simple feller at his enamel.

Typical exaggerated statement ("everything") for weak convenience.

I'd guess QAnon is easily just as woven into the current political fabric as Antifa. But babble on...

Las Vegas? Yeah, it has a place in sports. It's probably considered/refereed to by just about everybody doing game predictions in one way or another. Just sports betting alone is huge of course.

 I couldn't care less about your opinions. As I stated, they are no more relevant than any other poster here. It's just that you are the one that stands out as continually displaying a delusion of superior intelligence. The guy with the facts 

[NorCal RF]

This^

By "this", are you referring to the 8-67? 'Cause most fans seem stoked with Stafford as a Ram. I know I am

I’m thinking he was saying let’s allow Stafford to QB this team for a while before we start being negative. My reason for this^ RP. Like I said earlier in this thread sure that record against winning teams is alarming but I’m glad he is here and expect he will play well.

Now if he wasn’t being positive in his reply well I missed what he was referring to. Lord knows I rarely agree with him and have quit trying to get him to be even a bit open minded with an opinion different from his.

[NorCal RF]

Well that's happens when you don't bow to God (Stafford).

I'm kidding....please no one spazz out. I do actually like Stafford but he's getting the same treatment I gave Goff.

I agree with most of your sentiment toast. For example if we have anouther Green Bay fiasco I wouldn't blame Stafford just like I didn't blame Goff. However, the excuse making before the season has even started is little ironic.

Goff was never blamed for Green Bay because he didnt DESERVE any. Goff was (rightly) blamed for blowing the 1-seed with a number 1 Defense by playing extremely subpar in multiple games.

This^

[Cornell29]